A recent article I ran across makes the case for permanent campfire ban. Note that the author has built campfires himself, but runs through the reasons that campfires may not be in the best interest of human health or wilderness ecosystems.

Campfire article

1100 deaths a year, pollution, injuries, good lord people have lost their minds.

That article is chock full of disingenuous claims that don't give proper context.

plmn: "That article is chock full of disingenuous claims that don't give proper context. "

Examples please?

The article came from California so naturally I will choose the opposite solution. Put another log on the fire.

Aside from an all or none proposition, and focusing solely on wilderness, even state and national parks here is my comment. It isn't the fire it's the fire builder.

There is a difference between a campfire and a raging inferno. A campfire is small for cooking, warmth and ambience well contained, properly sited and built with properly gathered wood. If the flame is much above the grate, it is too big. A campfire is not flames five or six feet high, fed with dry boughs of pine needles sending embers flying and wood transported from you insect infested region, the sitting logs or live trees hatcheted from the edge of the camp site. If I can see your fire across the lake it is too big.
I have seen all of this and worse. Even a ban won't fix stupid.

While I can understand the viewpoint of the author, the leading cause (at least in Minnesota) of wildfires is not from campfires, but from debris burning: DNR: Wildfires in Minnesota Causes

A better avenue, instead of a highly polarizing article, could be educating when campfires could be lit. Too often I have seen visitors to the BWCA, a State Park, or a Forest Campground have a campfire when it hasn't rained in awhile and the wind is up. Can they still have a campfire? Technically yes, as there is no fire ban in place. Should they have a campfire? Situational awareness says no.

A prime example of "just because I can, should I" is the Ham Lake fire. There was no fire ban in place at the time, but on May 5, 2007, the BWCA was in a drought, there was barely to no snow pack, and the winds were blowing hard. If the person who had lit that fire been a bit more situational aware of the forest conditions, he might still be alive today.

Minnesotian: "
While I can understand the viewpoint of the author, the leading cause (at least in Minnesota) of wildfires is not from campfires, but from debris burning: DNR: Wildfires in Minnesota Causes


A better avenue, instead of a highly polarizing article, could be educating when campfires could be lit. Too often I have seen visitors to the BWCA, a State Park, or a Forest Campground have a campfire when it hasn't rained in awhile and the wind is up. Can they still have a campfire? Technically yes, as there is no fire ban in place. Should they have a campfire? Situational awareness says no.


A prime example of "just because I can, should I" is the Ham Lake fire. There was no fire ban in place at the time, but on May 5, 2007, the BWCA was in a drought, there was barely to no snow pack, and the winds were blowing hard. If the person who had lit that fire been a bit more situational aware of the forest conditions, he might still be alive today. "

Hear hear.

Chieflonewatie: "1100 deaths a year, pollution, injuries, good lord people have lost their minds."

A lot more people would lose their minds if you had to sit in the dark every night after the sun goes down on a week long BWCA trip. I can't imagine taking a fall trip when it gets dark at 7 PM and not having the warmth and ambience of a fire for 3 hours before bed.

Savage Voyageur: "The article came from California so naturally I will choose the opposite solution. Put another log on the fire. "

Amen !

Michwall2: "

plmn: "That article is chock full of disingenuous claims that don't give proper context. "

Examples please?"

Pollution - Gives the chemical makeup of campfire smoke, but absolutely no context as to how much campfires add to overall pollution ("outdoor fire" does not mean "campfire", not that they bothered to even give that figure). Likely because it's an irrelevant amount.

Health Problems - The "51%" wood pollution is almost certainly mostly due to wildfires and there is zero connection made between campfires and their "1100 deaths" figure. While it is true that breathing any kind of smoke is never healthy, for the vast majority of campers who only do this a handful of times per year, the risk is miniscule.

Litter - An anecdotal claim. Again, likely quite minor in the big picture compared to trash simply lying around.

Tree Damage - Another anecdotal claim without context. "You've seen this so it must be a major problem".

Invasive Species - Local wood has been required for many years at every campsite I've been to. Not a thing at all in the BWCA, of course.

Injury - No context given in relation to how many campers overall there were over that span (perhaps millions), or the amount of injuries from other causes. Camping is certainly more dangerous than sitting on your couch, and always will be.

I'm sure a case could be made for banning them, but this isn't it. This is just click bait drivel.

It’s always good to discuss and bring up topics. I had never personally thought of this before.

As far as the health risks…I was surprised there was any elevated risk but I am also surprised people still use wood for heat. We did as children but the stove was fully encased, not in a fireplace. So I don’t ever remember smoke? But I suppose I have an elevated risk.

Anyway…as per the health risks related to campfires I don’t think you can correlate this info/research to camp fires and camping. That wasn’t what the studies were looking at. Comparing the results to people who burn wood for heat in an enclosure Is different than the occasional outdoor campfire. It even said that in the study in so many words.

Causes of wildfire? Can anyone find a break down? Just saying humans cause the majority of fires and then blaming campfires isn’t accurate. The causes of human caused wild fires are numerous: arson, cigarettes, leaf/yard waste burning, fireworks, equipment malfunction (power lines/vehicles) and campfires are all human causes.

Anyway, good to get ya thinking, evaluating, but nothing based on reality…yet…

T

I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.


"

The Band?

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.


"

lol that brought me back to my childhood sitting around the fire.

Wood is renewable and plentiful in the woods; it saves on finite fossil fuel use.
Many of recent fires is from electrical lines, railroad tracks and a wide variety of other sources. Reason to go camping is to go back in time and be with nature and Turn of that Darn radio>Please.
Note: I more than anyone think some of our fossil's fuels use is bad and we have to correct that, but in this case keep the fire burning.

Freddy: "

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.



"

The Band?"

Saying we used, to chase the campfire smoke away from us.

LindenTree: "

Freddy: "

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.



"

The Band?"

Saying we used, to chase the campfire smoke away from us."

AND...it ALWAYS worked when I was a child :)

T

LindenTree: "

Freddy: "

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.



"

The Band?"

Saying we used, to chase the campfire smoke away from us."

Why is it whenever I sit around a campfire the smoke always blows my way?

Pinetree: "

LindenTree: "

Freddy: "

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.




"

The Band?"

Saying we used, to chase the campfire smoke away from us."

Why is it whenever I sit around a campfire the smoke always blows my way?"

Some people just suck :-)

Pinetree: "

LindenTree: "

Freddy: "

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.




"

The Band?"

Saying we used, to chase the campfire smoke away from us."

Why is it whenever I sit around a campfire the smoke always blows my way?"

My grandma always used to say, "smoke follows beauty".

Pinetree: "

LindenTree: "

Freddy: "

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.




"

The Band?"

Saying we used, to chase the campfire smoke away from us."

Why is it whenever I sit around a campfire the smoke always blows my way?"

Because I'm not there

I don't see campfires being banned overall, but there are places where they don't belong, and in some of these places they have been banned.

You can't have fires near timberline in some western wilderness areas due to the fragile nature and lack of wood in those places. Backcountry fires are very restricted in the heavily-used units of the national park system, as they should be. You can't just cut firewood around state park campgrounds, either.

I'd probably ban them during the warm season in parts of the BWCAW, including the Moose Chain and other heavily-used lakes due to the depletion of firewood and the temptation to cut green vegetation.

No bans in spring, fall, and winter though.

I'm likely in the minority, but I'm just not a fire guy. Never got into the sitting around the fire shooting the poop. That said, I know that is a very important aspect of many people's trip. Not only do they use fires for cooking, but the camaraderie of sitting around the fire is an essential social part of the trip. I know people who won't go if they can't have a fire.

Mike

I've only done 1 trip during a fire ban. I didn't realize how much of our trip enjoyment is centered around the fire until this trip. I'll do it if I have to, but I really value the fire time.

If breathing campfire smoke is going to harm you, move around the fire so the smoke blows away from you...

LindenTree: "I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
I hate White Rabbits.
"

This never seemed to work for me! Smoke seems to follow me around the fire pit.

4keys: " This never seemed to work for me! Smoke seems to follow me around the fire pit.
"

That's because fire draws in air as fuel. When you sit by it, you block some of that air, creating a low pressure area that the smoke is then drawn to.

At home or at the cabin, I like having a little fan by my chair to avoid such annoyances. For some reason though, in the BWCA campfire smoke rarely frustrates me. Must be a mental switch/thing.

Interestingly, my Canadian friends only say "white rabbit" 3x, not the "I hate white rabbits". It's how they grew up.

alpinebrule: "Aside from an all or none proposition, and focusing solely on wilderness, even state and national parks here is my comment. It isn't the fire it's the fire builder.


There is a difference between a campfire and a raging inferno. A campfire is small for cooking, warmth and ambience well contained, properly sited and built with properly gathered wood. If the flame is much above the grate, it is too big. A campfire is not flames five or six feet high, fed with dry boughs of pine needles sending embers flying and wood transported from you insect infested region, the sitting logs or live trees hatcheted from the edge of the camp site. If I can see your fire across the lake it is too big.
I have seen all of this and worse. Even a ban won't fix stupid.
"

^THIS!
I wish more people understood that.

I don't use fires unless I need to in order to stay warm. I hate the smoke, and don't use them for cooking. So personally I wouldn't care if there were more restrictions on fires. But I know that opinion is in the minority and a lot of people enjoy them.

As long as conditions are not ultra dry, and not too windy, I am in favor of making a campfire. That is one reason I enjoy camping. Call it the neanderthal in me. Yes, there are always some risks. There are risks in driving a car, yet we do it all the time.

Michwall2: "A recent article I ran across makes the case for permanent campfire ban. Note that the author has built campfires himself, but runs through the reasons that campfires may not be in the best interest of human health or wilderness ecosystems.

I'm totally for it as soon as we ban electricity first. It's definitely not in the interest of ecosystems, and neither is the humanity.

To each their own. I never have camp fires anymore when I solo, and when traveling with others, I leave it up to them. They want a fire-happy to help.

JimmyJustice: "At home or at the cabin, I like having a little fan by my chair to avoid such annoyances. For some reason though, in the BWCA campfire smoke rarely frustrates me. Must be a mental switch/thing.


Interestingly, my Canadian friends only say "white rabbit" 3x, not the "I hate white rabbits". It's how they grew up. "

Hah! I didn't understand the "White Rabbit“ reference until this post. But I don't recognize "I hate white rabbits". The holy expression around these parts is, "Funny bunny" repeated three times. Not four, not two. Three being the number; the number being three. So it is written in The Book of Conflagration.

Im up at turkey camp for a week. Stay tuned fo my camp fire.

Im up at turkey camp for a week. Stay tuned fo my camp fire.

This is key here because the context for the article IS the west coast. Specifically, the mountain areas featuring heavily used alpine areas where wood is scarce and damage is long lasting. Coupled with the periods of drought and the heavy use these areas see, discussion of campfires issues is likely needed. The BWCA is a different critter, but how we use campfires and deal with our unique environment and weather conditions is worthy of discussion. A small fire in the spring or fall can be lifesaving while huge bonfires in dry condition can lead to disaster. A discussion about what a good fire ethic is between my two examples is helpful, like many of the posts in this thread.

Fires are optional for me. Gathering and cutting wood is just an extra camp chore, although I do enjoy a walk back behind camp...sometimes you find interesting things.
I love trips in Autumn, and that is when a fire is important to me.
Warmth and comfort on a cool short day. Keep the fire small.