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      Video of what not to do in the BWCA     
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08/13/2020 11:29AM
So I was going through recent BWCA videos yesterday and came across this one... (I've already sent a link to the forest service). You have to wonder if they even watched the forest service video? Based on their gun range choice, I'm guessing they just don't give a $***.

EDIT: Link removed as the video was taken down.
 
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08/13/2020 11:59AM
Couldn't make it past trying to open a can with a Kabar - too disgusting to watch the collections of infractions even at 2x speed.

TZ
 
Northwoodsman
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08/13/2020 01:09PM
What infractions? Tin cans, peeling birch bark off a live tree, carving initials in said tree, washing dishes in the lake, burying trash in camp, having fire outside of fire grat area...
 
hexnymph
distinguished member(986)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 02:17PM
I've been filleting pike all wrong?

Hex
 
geotramper
distinguished member (153)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 02:39PM
Anyone recognize the lake/campsite? Looks like it would be pretty easy to go and find whatever they buried and remove it.
 
Gaidin53
senior member (57)senior membersenior member
 
08/13/2020 03:14PM
Had to take a break from the video at the Kabar knife being used to cut open the can. I did a screen shot and I’m pretty sure they brought in a scuba tank and BC vest. It was to the right of the yard sale picture of all the stuff they brought. I don’t think the scuba stuff is a violation I was just surprised by it though.

They 100% need to find these idiots and fine them! I’ll probably have more to say once I finish watching if I can handle it.

By the way I think the gun range was at someone’s house so I don’t have an issue with that. Pretty sure I wouldn’t want to be around those idiots with loaded firearms though. Pretty sure her trigger finger wasn’t indexed correctly when she was running forward and was on the trigger. I don’t know that for sure though.

Ryan
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/13/2020 03:21PM
They were so proud of themselves.
 
Gaidin53
senior member (57)senior membersenior member
 
08/13/2020 03:32PM
They also brought tiki torches. I emailed it to the Forest service as well just to make sure it gets to the enforcement arm.

Ryan
 
jhb8426
distinguished member(1155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 03:48PM
She's lucky she didn't cut a finger off opening that can with the kabar.
Overall disgusting.
 
08/13/2020 05:14PM
Gaidin53: "By the way I think the gun range was at someone’s house so I don’t have an issue with that. Pretty sure I wouldn’t want to be around those idiots with loaded firearms though. Pretty sure her trigger finger wasn’t indexed correctly when she was running forward and was on the trigger. I don’t know that for sure though.


Ryan"


Point one of those high powered rounds a little too high and it’s likely not going to stay on your property. That was my observation.
 
flaxman
senior member (65)senior membersenior member
 
08/13/2020 05:26PM
brux: "Gaidin53: "By the way I think the gun range was at someone’s house so I don’t have an issue with that. Pretty sure I wouldn’t want to be around those idiots with loaded firearms though. Pretty sure her trigger finger wasn’t indexed correctly when she was running forward and was on the trigger. I don’t know that for sure though.



Ryan"



Point one of those high powered rounds a little too high and it’s likely not going to stay on your property. That was my observation."


Agree. Hard to imagine that property extending beyond the range of those rifles. I especially enjoyed (heavy sarcasm) the clown shooting the rifle Rambo style from his waist.

Darwin will undoubtedly catch up with these clowns eventually. I just hope that they stay away from the BWCA in the meantime.
 
scotttimm
distinguished member (385)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 06:42PM
License plates visible at 11:55 of the video...someone who reported should download before they take it down.
 
08/13/2020 06:51PM
scotttimm: "License plates visible at 11:55 of the video...someone who reported should download before they take it down."

Already done before I posted. The plate is clearly visible and a simple google search clearly identifies the poster via other social media profiles.
 
schweady
distinguished member(6984)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/13/2020 06:58PM
scotttimm: "License plates visible at 11:55 of the video...someone who reported should download before they take it down."
V76 4192 ?? Acura of some sort? No idea what state, tho.
At first I thought it looked looked like they went Moose River North to Agnes, but they said '2 hours in.'
 
Mocha
distinguished member(7150)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/13/2020 07:04PM
Omggggggg...... I cant even begin to think what their penalty should be. Community service to be completed with USFs rangers in the absolute
Worst area of the bwca. How about digging new latrines...
 
08/13/2020 07:24PM
Studies have shown that questionable behavior can be directly linked to flag shorts.


 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(13338)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/13/2020 07:25PM
Mocha: "Omggggggg...... I cant even begin to think what their penalty should be. Community service to be completed with USFs rangers in the absolute
Worst area of the bwca. How about digging new latrines..."


I don’t want these idiots anywhere near the BWCA. Community service in Ely would be fine though.
 
Abbey
distinguished member (246)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 07:32PM
Lots of places look similar without context, but that creek exit plus the wider area at the end of the exit paddle looks like Hog Creek. That wider area is just downstream of the only short portage. I’ve only been there once, but it didn’t look like the campsite that we stayed on.
 
jwartman59
distinguished member(3149)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 07:49PM
Agree parent lake.
I did the google lurk thing and found her Instagram page. I’m not up to date on some of this stuff but this one s her quote on that page. I love a good bit of irony



 
OMGitsKa
senior member (83)senior membersenior member
 
08/13/2020 08:16PM
This is why we can't have nice things.
 
podgeo
distinguished member (281)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 08:17PM
schweady: "scotttimm: "License plates visible at 11:55 of the video...someone who reported should download before they take it down."
Still seeing it at OP's link.
V76 4192 ?? Acura of some sort? No idea what state, tho.
At first I thought it looked looked like they went Moose River North to Agnes, but they said '2 hours in.'
"


Illinois

I think the what it looked like to me
 
gopher2307
distinguished member (148)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 08:50PM
This is Merica. Don't tread on them with your rules.

For the proper authorities and not some overly exuberant person on here per say: Gray Acura MDX with plates V76 4192. Cannot decipher the state perfectly, but looks like Illinois. Amazing.

With the title of this post being "video of what not to do", I didn't know where this video was headed. I truly did not want her injured, and still don't even given the obvious rule breaking stuff, but I kinda think the video would have been more interesting had that happened. I thought that was the 'dont do this moment' for sure and the rest of the video would be a bloody paddle back up river in that chintzy kayak. There's always next trip for them to really wow us, I guess.

 
08/13/2020 09:21PM
Have we seen that inflatable kayak on the forum before? Are we talking Perent Lake or Parent Lake?

 
straighthairedcurly
distinguished member(680)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 09:31PM
Wow, just sad.
 
OldTripper
distinguished member (136)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 09:33PM
Sad...
Disgusting...
I hope someone stays on top of this and reports back to the forum if they were ever caught and/or charged.
 
scat
distinguished member(892)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 10:03PM
Unfortunately it seems like they had a really fun, if not dumbass stupid, time. Young punks goofing off. The burning the hole thru the log was kinda cool I thought. But def not in the BWCA. Peeling the birch bark is what offended me most. Some people just need to be slapped into their senses. Maybe they will grow up.
 
tarnkt
distinguished member (318)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 10:44PM
They obviously were not aware of the rules or they wouldn’t have posted this.

They clearly had a lot of fun up there. The answer should be education, not an angry mob.

There is often talk about how to engage the younger generation to keep the tradition alive and this thread is certainly counter productive to those goals.

Rules were clearly broken, but I would caution attributing malice when ignorance is far more likely.

We were all young once...
 
scat
distinguished member(892)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 11:01PM
I was going to say something similar to that, that they didn’t know the rules and such, and if they did maybe they wouldn’t have done the things they did. Who knows, maybe they would anyway. Not so sure about your point that this thread is counterproductive. Maybe some young people on the site will be influenced by this in a positive way.

Geez, now I suddenly feel old, referring to grown men and a woman as young people. We were all young once, we can only hope to get wiser with age. Some never do.
 
mvillasuso
distinguished member (128)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 11:18PM
tarnkt: "They obviously were not aware of the rules or they wouldn’t have posted this.

They clearly had a lot of fun up there. The answer should be education, not an angry mob.

There is often talk about how to engage the younger generation to keep the tradition alive and this thread is certainly counter productive to those goals.

Rules were clearly broken, but I would caution attributing malice when ignorance is far more likely.

We were all young once..."


True. We were all young once. But this wilderness matters so much to so many people, that we all have to accept our reaponsibility to take care of it.
And we are all adults; and we are all fallible; yet, we are all accountable to understand and comply with regulations.
This is fundamental stuff.
They didn’t simply ‘make errors in judgement’.
They ignored their responsibility to understand and follow wilderness area regulations.
Fine (even if only $100- and/or community/wilderness service).

There are no snooze buttons on being a responsible citizen.
 
jhb8426
distinguished member(1155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 12:02AM
Ignorance is no excuse. Given their actions shooting guns, I would say they just don't give a damn about rules. They appear to be beyond "education". Sorry I just don't agree with the "education" viewpoint.
 
tarnkt
distinguished member (318)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 06:14AM
mvillasuso: "tarnkt: "They obviously were not aware of the rules or they wouldn’t have posted this.


They clearly had a lot of fun up there. The answer should be education, not an angry mob.


There is often talk about how to engage the younger generation to keep the tradition alive and this thread is certainly counter productive to those goals.


Rules were clearly broken, but I would caution attributing malice when ignorance is far more likely.


We were all young once..."



True. We were all young once. But this wilderness matters so much to so many people, that we all have to accept our reaponsibility to take care of it.
And we are all adults; and we are all fallible; yet, we are all accountable to understand and comply with regulations.
This is fundamental stuff.
They didn’t simply ‘make errors in judgement’.
They ignored their responsibility to understand and follow wilderness area regulations.
Fine (even if only $100- and/or community/wilderness service).


There are no snooze buttons on being a responsible citizen. "


If a fine is appropriate per the USFS rule enforcement schedule (I’m assuming it is) then I’m all for it and that would be an effective way of making sure they remember the rules.

I guess what I was getting at was I am much more put off by a seeing group of strangers excited about thinking of creative ways to punish people than anything the offenders did.

I probably should have kept my mouth shut.

Carry on
 
minnesotashooter
distinguished member (189)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 07:07AM
Mocha: "Omggggggg...... I cant even begin to think what their penalty should be. Community service to be completed with USFs rangers in the absolute
Worst area of the bwca. How about digging new latrines..."


How about cleaning out existing ones??
 
Duckman
distinguished member (404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 07:22AM
Not condoning the slips in the video, but groups with that level of bending the rules are probably pretty common, even in a normal year without the pandemic.

You could probably put together a video with that number of infractions (though not as well produced), of every new group in the BDUB, and of many seasoned groups for that matter.

Again, not condoning it or saying there shouldn't be consequences, but that seemed to me like pretty common goofing off, not a sign of increasing disrespect for the wilderness.
 
SummerSkin
senior member (86)senior membersenior member
 
08/14/2020 07:45AM
Duckman: "Not condoning the slips in the video, but groups with that level of bending the rules are probably pretty common, even in a normal year without the pandemic.


You could probably put together a video with that number of infractions (though not as well produced), of every new group in the BDUB, and of many seasoned groups for that matter.


Again, not condoning it or saying there shouldn't be consequences, but that seemed to me like pretty common goofing off, not a sign of increasing disrespect for the wilderness."


Seriously? Burying a piece of plastic doesn't seem like disrespect for the wilderness?

Perhaps they didn't REALIZE their actions were disrespectful, and it's likely they weren't INTENDING to disrespect the wilderness, but as has been said above, ignorance is not an excuse.

If a teenager flies down my street at 60 mph he might not INTEND disrespect towards my and others' families who live on that street, but it is still incredibly disrespectful.

"I was just goofing off, officer" or "Everyone else was speeding too, officer" are not excuses that will ever get you off the hook.

Also it is exactly this kind of "goofing off" that leads to forest fires. Very rarely are forest fires started intentionally. I don't care how many others do it too, if one group stops making fires outside the grates and taking tiki torches because of a few harsh comments on their YouTube video then that is 100% worth it to me, and one less chance my and others' BWCA trips are ruined by a massive forest fire.

There are plenty of places where young adults can "goof off" but a protected wilderness area is not one of them.
 
Duckman
distinguished member (404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 08:02AM
Hmmmm, seems to be some confusion with what I meant. I said I wasn't condoning it twice! Again, not saying it shouldn't be caught and dealt with.

Just differentiating this from issues this year of increased traffic/increased new people and the impact it's having.

That's all. This video represents a lot of what happens every year, not something special to this season.
 
Gaidin53
senior member (57)senior membersenior member
 
08/14/2020 09:03AM
So let’s define what we’re violations within the park. The gun stuff was outside the BWCA. Clearly many of the people in this video are or were former military. That does condone or make anything they did less or more egregious I’m just pointing it out.

1. Peeled birch bark in a band off of a live tree
2. Carved initials in a live tree after removing birch bark
3. Tiki torch fire outside three fire grate.
4. Burning a chimney in log outside fire grate(I agree interesting to see done but not in BWCA or National Forest areas.
5. Burning trash in a site(yes I realize it’s a time capsule that they did but it violates leave no trace, and the BWCA rules of leave no trash.

So I’d say a fine is in order for all involved. I’d like to see them banned for a few years from the BWCA as well. Not sure how that is enforceable or even possible. That being said they are young and stupid as were we all at some point. Hopefully they can learn this behavior is not acceptable and be taught the correct way to leave no trace in all areas while being outdoors.

Ryan
 
4keys
distinguished member(756)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 09:38AM
Yes we all were younger once and we all probably did stupid things we'd rather not think about now. But I would guess that the majority of us watched the videos, read the rules, and followed them. And we still enjoyed our trip.
 
sheephead
member (9)member
 
08/14/2020 09:59AM
I like the Idea of not having to go to Outfitter for permit. You can print your permit.
BUT people need to watch VIDEOS .
I made my nephews watch video last summer and when we got permit at LaCroix Ranger Station I made them answer the questions . They answer all of them correctly.

So maybe fine tune the online permits with a tests to pass to get a permit. That way you are force to watch video.
 
08/14/2020 10:16AM
Definitely looks like Hog Creek to Perent. The sign and trail at the beginning matches the Hog Creek portage from the parking lot, looks like the Hog Creek parking lot, it looks like the Hog Creek especially the opening that Abbey mentioned, and the campsite looks just like the one we stayed at on Perent.
 
jhb8426
distinguished member(1155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 10:39AM
Frankly I don't see anywhere people are looking for ways to punish people other than under the existing statutes. No one is advocating anything more than that.
 
BearBurrito
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08/14/2020 11:35AM
That makes me sick.
 
missmolly
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08/14/2020 12:25PM
jhb8426: "Frankly I don't see anywhere people are looking for ways to punish people other than under the existing statutes. No one is advocating anything more than that."

To be frank, I was a millimeter away from releasing the Kraken.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2658)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 12:34PM
missmolly: "jhb8426: "Frankly I don't see anywhere people are looking for ways to punish people other than under the existing statutes. No one is advocating anything more than that."


To be frank, I was a millimeter away from releasing the Kraken. "

I'm impressed!
 
WalleyeHunter24
distinguished member (133)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 12:44PM
Gaidin53: "So let’s define what we’re violations within the park. The gun stuff was outside the BWCA. Clearly many of the people in this video are or were former military. That does condone or make anything they did less or more egregious I’m just pointing it out.


1. Peeled birch bark in a band off of a live tree
2. Carved initials in a live tree after removing birch bark
3. Tiki torch fire outside three fire grate.
4. Burning a chimney in log outside fire grate(I agree interesting to see done but not in BWCA or National Forest areas.
5. Burning trash in a site(yes I realize it’s a time capsule that they did but it violates leave no trace, and the BWCA rules of leave no trash.


So I’d say a fine is in order for all involved. I’d like to see them banned for a few years from the BWCA as well. Not sure how that is enforceable or even possible. That being said they are young and stupid as were we all at some point. Hopefully they can learn this behavior is not acceptable and be taught the correct way to leave no trace in all areas while being outdoors.


Ryan "


Well stated. I completely agree.
 
Jaywalker
distinguished member(2330)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 12:59PM
geotramper: "Anyone recognize the lake/campsite? Looks like it would be pretty easy to go and find whatever they buried and remove it. "
That looks like the Hog Creek entry and Perent Lake. There are several island sites there, but I'm fairly sure its the first one pretty much straight west of where the creek enters the lake.

So far when I watched, 2 thumbs up and 30 thumbs down - when they notice I bet that video is gone.
 
moosedoggie
distinguished member (160)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 01:38PM
missmolly: "jhb8426: "Frankly I don't see anywhere people are looking for ways to punish people other than under the existing statutes. No one is advocating anything more than that."


To be frank, I was a millimeter away from releasing the Kraken. "




I've always found this funny
 
MikeinMpls
distinguished member(674)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 02:17PM
Rowdy and inconsiderate groups are not unusual on Perent Lake. It's super easy to get to...perfect for clowns like this.

I'll bet that for every one of these groups we KNOW about, there are five that we never see or are not stupid enough to upload their blatant rule breaking to the internet. I would think this would be easy to investigate. I hope it is.

I keep saying "something must be done" though I know that whatever the "something" is will likely be years down the road. I know the "something" is never simple, especially when it involves the federal government. Do the BWCA managers at the SNF have unilateral power to change the video or alter the permitting process, or must that be decreed by Washington? Or must there be a study, or a blue-ribbon commission, or similar just to get the process started? It seems as if we're all narrowing down theoretical ideas, and I'm wondering if any of them could actually be instituted by next year's paddling season.

Mike
 
08/14/2020 04:30PM
Will all of the newbie traffic resulting in increased abuse, I think it shines a light on the failure to communicate to permit holders what is expected of them within park limits.

Not everyone is forced to watch a video when picking up their permits but everyone enters at entry points. I always thought it would be more effective to post the major rules and best practices at every entry point. Big and bold, right at the start of every trail or landing.

Yes, this will cost money. No, it won't cure stupid. I do think that reading the rules right before entering the woods would be far more effective than what's currently happening. Some outfitters are excellent at this, others seem not to want to bother people with the rules.

Another idea is to make the permits a full 9x11 page and print the rules right on the permit.

If the offender has the rules in their pocket we don't have to feel shy about blasting their character when they F up.
 
scat
distinguished member(892)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 04:31PM
Why don’t we on this site band together, take matters into our own hands, and form a vigilante type enforcement group. We make the rules now. The govt is too weak to enforce the rules, we’ll do it. No more complaining on a forum. We want action and we want it now!

First we need members, then we need a set of guidelines, then we need T shirts. I always wanted an official looking T shirt. We can come up with a plan of action to bring down these scoundrels, these hordes desecrating our beloved wilderness area. If you don’t mind, I just don’t want to be the leader, more like backup and fund treasurer. T shirt designer and procurer, if that’s ok.

Time to mobilize! Unite, divide and conquer. It’s the American way!
We can do this, together. I know we can.
 
RatherbeDuffing
member (15)member
 
08/14/2020 04:36PM
Please don't rationalize this due to their age or inexperience. Me and plenty of other young people go to the BWCA and aren't idiots. I don't care if this isn't outside the norm for first time groups in the BWCA.

If you break the rules and are caught you should be punished. These people are a special kind of stupid for A) posting their infractions and B) leaving the video up after the negative reaction
 
schweady
distinguished member(6984)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/14/2020 09:41PM
fadersup: "...Another idea is to make the permits a full 9x11 page and print the rules right on the permit.


If the offender has the rules in their pocket we don't have to feel shy about blasting their character when they F up.
"

Uhm... here's what the back of a permit looks like:

 
jwmiller39
senior member (51)senior membersenior member
 
08/14/2020 10:01PM
A simple good search of the YouTube account name brings you to their linked in page. The poster of the video is a college student in Iowa and even has her personal email AND cell phone number on there. Can someone please share that info with the USFS?
 
Gaidin53
senior member (57)senior membersenior member
 
08/14/2020 10:29PM
It was already reported multiple times. This is the response I got back this morning from the Forest service. I’ll take out the individuals name and specifics though. This person is a federal employee but I’m not going to put that specific info out.

By the way she has now made the video private as of 10:30 pm. tonight. Pretty sure it won’t matter since the original posters and other individuals said they downloaded it and I’m sure the Forest service did as well since I got this reply from them this morning.


Thank you for contacting Superior National Forest.

This video has actually been sent to us from a couple different sources. I will be happy to provide your email to the Forest’s Law Enforcement Officers for their review and potential action.

If I can be of any further assistance, please don’t hesitate to let me know.

Regards,

USFS
Xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
Visitor Services and Information
Forest Service
Superior National Forest, Supervisor's Office
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
8901 Grand Avenue Place
Duluth, MN 55808
www.fs.fed.us
USDA Logo Forest Service Twitter USDA Facebook
Caring for the land and serving people

 
airmorse
distinguished member(2695)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 10:29PM
Looks like they changed the permissions for their video. I can no longer view it.
 
airmorse
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08/14/2020 10:31PM
moosedoggie: "missmolly: "jhb8426: "Frankly I don't see anywhere people are looking for ways to punish people other than under the existing statutes. No one is advocating anything more than that."



To be frank, I was a millimeter away from releasing the Kraken. "





I've always found this funny"


Too funny!!!
 
jhb8426
distinguished member(1155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2020 01:00AM
airmorse: "Looks like they changed the permissions for their video. I can no longer view it."

I guess all the critical comments got to her.

Actually she took down all of her internet stuff.
 
08/15/2020 06:14AM
schweady: "fadersup: "...Another idea is to make the permits a full 9x11 page and print the rules right on the permit.



If the offender has the rules in their pocket we don't have to feel shy about blasting their character when they F up.
"

Uhm... here's what the back of a permit looks like:

"


The last few times we made a canoe trip, and for sure the last time in 2013, we picked our permit up and the permitting person (usually USFS) actually quizzed us on these questions on the back of the permit before giving it to us. In '13, the ranger said "It is only a formality in your case. . ." and I replied that I was happy to answer the questions.

We were in our late 60's, lots of gray hair, and had already discussed with him that we had been canoe-tripping in the BWCA since 1971. The only question I paused on was the one about fish remains, since we don't fish.

This should happen every time a permit is picked up, IMHO.

But I wonder if these people even HAD a permit!
 
Jaywalker
distinguished member(2330)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2020 08:12AM
schweady: "fadersup: "...Another idea is to make the permits a full 9x11 page and print the rules right on the permit.



If the offender has the rules in their pocket we don't have to feel shy about blasting their character when they F up.
"

Uhm... here's what the back of a permit looks like:

"

Unfortunately right now many people are printing their confirmation letter as the permit, and the rules are not listed. Not sure how many would read them or heed them, but t would be worth a try - wouldn’t be all that hard for the FS to modify the email.
 
Jaywalker
distinguished member(2330)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2020 08:12AM
Accidental double post.
 
08/15/2020 11:58AM
schweady: "fadersup: "...Another idea is to make the permits a full 9x11 page and print the rules right on the permit.



If the offender has the rules in their pocket we don't have to feel shy about blasting their character when they F up.
"

Uhm... here's what the back of a permit looks like:

"


Well, that was quick. Always happy to help!
 
Nigal
distinguished member (203)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2020 05:16PM
schweady: "fadersup: "...Another idea is to make the permits a full 9x11 page and print the rules right on the permit.



If the offender has the rules in their pocket we don't have to feel shy about blasting their character when they F up.
"

Uhm... here's what the back of a permit looks like:

"


I was wondering they even had a permit.
 
Northwoodsman
distinguished member(1482)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2020 07:22PM
Perhaps after Sept. 15th they should wave the permit fee for a group that brings out trash or provide a voucher to use on a permit for next season. Paddlers could pick up a heavy duty trash bag from an outfitter and collect trash from campsites and portages, they bring it to a cooperator (the outfitters that issue permits) and they document that you hauled out a bag or more of trash. Perhaps take some pictures of the campsites that you cleaned up. Maybe even a sticker to put on your canoe or vehicle to let people know that you helped. This would be a good idea for next May as well. They could use some extra eyes out there to document the damage so the USFS knows where to allocate resources early in the season. I'm guessing there have been many attempts to relocate fire grates and a lot of garbage put in the latrines that they need to know about.
 
4keys
distinguished member(756)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2020 08:04PM
So here is an idea, although unrealistic, expensive, and it would probably be vandalized .: Install scanners at every entry point where you would scan your permit or enter the permit number before you get on the water. While it would not stop some without a permit, it might enlighten some who had no clue. And the FS could get data on how many with permits are actually using them, maybe even number of people or canoes too. And if you scan when you leave the FS could get data on length of stay, and know who is still out there in case of a fire etc. Outfitters could have some modification of this on their computer.

Ok, yes I have a little too much time on my hands, and my mind is wandering.
 
Mocha
distinguished member(7150)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/15/2020 08:39PM
I like scanner idea,

Also, at every entry point there is rules and regs posted....I believe, plus a self issuing permit box with carbons of the permit so they could see the rules if they ever wondered if there was rules for this area.

Perhaps be a.com members should form a voluntAry entry
Point reviewer group, sit at ep’s and quiz each person entering. Of course, you would need the USFs blessing and probably the lovely green uniform to look official.

For those who feel the posts about penalties were out of line, there is absolUtely no doubt they were up to no good. If eAch of them goes home and Tells people what a great time they had and all the stupid crap they did, just how many more people will show up and do the same? And then what happens when it’s you at a neighboring site that witnesses this but now you are nervous about confronting them to “introduce them to the rules”... you have no idea what other shenanigans they have up their sleeves or what other weapons they might have.

It’s best to nip it in the bud now. And to think she may have posted this on her linked in account for other professionals to watch... do you think it would have any bearing on her getting hired for a job?

Ahhhh....I shouldn’t get so worked up.
 
Gaidin53
senior member (57)senior membersenior member
 
08/15/2020 11:02PM
Minnesota has people that check boats coming off lakes. I know when I Put in at Lake of the woods and pull out they have paid people that do checks. Lots of retired people that love the lake and need a little extra money. Some of the BWCA entry points are pretty remote but maybe start with a similar thing at the more popular entry points. Or entry points perceived to have more violations. Although the last two times I entered I came off of Northern Tiers entry and this time Moose Lake but one of the tow boat providers.

Not really sure a scanner would work since those without permits just wouldn’t scan the permit they don’t have.

Checks in campsites would be tough. So much toilet paper and wipes at the edges of the campsites. I usually like to pick up garbage and carry it out but it was too much this year. Especially with Covid concerns I just couldn’t get motivated to pick up a wipe someone cleaned with and should have thrown down the grumper. Although some of the Cleaning wipes I saw shouldn’t be thrown down the grumper but should be put in the garbage and carried out. I almost felt like I had to document the shape the site was in when I arrived so that if we did get checked I could prove I had left no trace.

I just can’t understand when someone wipes with toilet paper that close to the toilet why they can’t place the paper in the toilet! That was really what bothered me the most!

I’d love to go back in with a crew and do some cleanup and carry out trash. Challenge is time off though.

Ryan
 
jhb8426
distinguished member(1155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/16/2020 01:39AM
A scanner of permits - NO. Sounds like big brother to me. My insurance company recently sent me a "free" smart watch to track my daily steps (activities). I sent it back. I don't need people tracking where I am/have been. Thanks very much.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/16/2020 06:08AM
jhb8426: "A scanner of permits - NO. Sounds like big brother to me. My insurance company recently sent me a "free" smart watch to track my daily steps (activities). I sent it back. I don't need people tracking where I am/have been. Thanks very much."

Do you own a smartphone? Your computer is also tracking you. So is your car. You're also being tracked every time you walk past a camera. My point is that Big Brother is already our neighbor.
 
jhb8426
distinguished member(1155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/16/2020 11:47AM
Yeah, I know. Just my strike against the wall. Don't need to provide more data points. And I have location tracking off on my cell phone.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/16/2020 12:47PM
jhb8426: "Yeah, I know. Just my strike against the wall. Don't need to provide more data points. And I have location tracking off on my cell phone."

Agreed.
 
jwmiller39
senior member (51)senior membersenior member
 
08/17/2020 08:31AM
If anyone has been in contact with the USFS, I saved the cell phone number from the linked in page of the person who posted the video before they took down all their social media accounts. I have their name and phone number that I can pass on to the USFS if they do not already have it. I'm hoping someone that has already been in contact with the USFS can share this with them. Email me if needed.
 
WalleyeHunter24
distinguished member (133)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/17/2020 10:35AM
Gaidin53: "It was already reported multiple times. This is the response I got back this morning from the Forest service. I’ll take out the individuals name and specifics though. This person is a federal employee but I’m not going to put that specific info out.


By the way she has now made the video private as of 10:30 pm. tonight. Pretty sure it won’t matter since the original posters and other individuals said they downloaded it and I’m sure the Forest service did as well since I got this reply from them this morning.



Thank you for contacting Superior National Forest.

This video has actually been sent to us from a couple different sources. I will be happy to provide your email to the Forest’s Law Enforcement Officers for their review and potential action.

If I can be of any further assistance, please don’t hesitate to let me know.

Regards,

USFS
Xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
Visitor Services and Information
Forest Service
Superior National Forest, Supervisor's Office
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
8901 Grand Avenue Place
Duluth, MN 55808
www.fs.fed.us
USDA Logo Forest Service Twitter USDA Facebook
Caring for the land and serving people


"


Thanks for sharing. Any chance you can keep this thread up-to-date if you receive any further notifications? I made a call to submit a report last week, but was notified that they already had enough written submissions to move forward.
 
Gaidin53
senior member (57)senior membersenior member
 
08/17/2020 12:06PM
I wish they would but I doubt they will inform me of anything related to what the outcome of the investigation is and if any fines or punishment was given out.

Ryan
 
scat
distinguished member(892)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/18/2020 03:27PM
Thanks missmolly, so much for ‘hunkering down’, staying cool and under the radar. Someone is always watching. I was looking for my cellphone again the other day, which I do far too often, and it hit me, I need to get away from this crap. If I turn it off for the weekend can ‘they’ still track me. I would hope they have something better to do. I’m just trying to be a nice guy, be kind to my fellow beings, offer a suggestion if asked, keep my clothes on in public.
So off to Willow Flowage I go. Phone turned off, for 2 days. I gotta be on the hook Thurs/Fri while there. Which means they prob have me spotted for the rest of the weekend if they are curious and any bit logical in their thinking. I’ll try to keep my pants on. Someone might be watching.
 
tumblehome
distinguished member(1708)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/19/2020 09:27AM
It’s not whether or not you are comfortable being on a Government list, it’s how many lists you are comfortable being on. The Government has many ways to keep track of everything you do. But you shouldn’t worry about the Government.

You should be worried about Google and Facebook. They are collecting your data in many ways to know your every move, everyone you talk to. How much you make, where you spend it. The data collected on humans is substantial. That’s who you should be worried about. And I’m not even a conspiracy theorist.

As long as you have a phone and surf the web, you are a well known, and tracked target.

Tom

 
mike2019
member (24)member
 
08/19/2020 10:30AM
Last year i completed my first two trips to the BWCA, two different outfitters. Both asked me if I had seen the videos...I had online, they said ok that was good enough. Just saying.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/19/2020 11:14AM
scat: "Thanks missmolly, so much for ‘hunkering down’, staying cool and under the radar. Someone is always watching. I was looking for my cellphone again the other day, which I do far too often, and it hit me, I need to get away from this crap. If I turn it off for the weekend can ‘they’ still track me. I would hope they have something better to do. I’m just trying to be a nice guy, be kind to my fellow beings, offer a suggestion if asked, keep my clothes on in public.
So off to Willow Flowage I go. Phone turned off, for 2 days. I gotta be on the hook Thurs/Fri while there. Which means they prob have me spotted for the rest of the weekend if they are curious and any bit logical in their thinking. I’ll try to keep my pants on. Someone might be watching."


Ha! Funny guy!
 
PolyphemusPariah
member (6)member
 
08/23/2020 06:34PM
We just got from Perent Lake, and I'm fairly certain we stayed at the camp shown in the vid (see map photo). On the Southwest side of the island, there was a recently marred Birch with the inscription 'HDHT3'...I think this is what was in the vid (photos below). I also included a pic of the camp (as well as some bonus shots of my wife with a pike and the rainbow over camp). Great trip and timed it well. Got this site right away upon entering on Tues...when leaving Friday the parking lot at Hog Creek was overflowing....not sure where those campers ended up sleeping once out at Perent.
 
Abbey
distinguished member (246)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/23/2020 10:53PM
That photo of the birch made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. The other photos are great though. That table is an appropriate Perent lake accessory.

I hope the Forest Service is able to take the action they determine is appropriate.
 
08/23/2020 11:15PM
Did you dig up what they buried?
 
acanoer
member (36)member
 
08/24/2020 06:41AM
PolyphemusPariah: " We just got from Perent Lake, and I'm fairly certain we stayed at the camp shown in the vid (see map photo). On the Southwest side of the island, there was a recently marred Birch with the inscription 'HDHT3'...I think this is what was in the vid (photos below). I also included a pic of the camp (as well as some bonus shots of my wife with a pike and the rainbow over camp). Great trip and timed it well. Got this site right away upon entering on Tues...when leaving Friday the parking lot at Hog Creek was overflowing....not sure where those campers ended up sleeping once out at Perent.
"


I thought using beaver wood as a fire wood is a violation
 
tumblehome
distinguished member(1708)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/24/2020 07:12AM
Beaver wood is not a violation.

Your camp looks beautiful!

I have spent a lot of time wondering why people treat the BWCA in a negative way.

Growing up, I had no mentor, nobody taught me wilderness values or respect of nature. And I am certain that nobody mentored the kids that are the focus of this thread. It is impossible to educate everyone that goes into the BWCA but after much reflection of the issue, I think education is the only answer. Enforcement and punishment are post-indecent responses. Too bad we can't stop it before it happens.
Tom
 
PolyphemusPariah
member (6)member
 
08/24/2020 07:53AM
brux: "Did you dig up what they buried?"

Shoot! Forgot all about that!
 
PolyphemusPariah
member (6)member
 
08/24/2020 07:55AM
The table was new for us in BWCA, but I think we'll sacrifice space to bring it along again...not sure how we managed without it now
 
PolyphemusPariah
member (6)member
 
08/24/2020 07:56AM
tumblehome: "Beaver wood is not a violation.


Your camp looks beautiful!


I have spent a lot of time wondering why people treat the BWCA in a negative way.


Growing up, I had no mentor, nobody taught me wilderness values or respect of nature. And I am certain that nobody mentored the kids that are the focus of this thread. It is impossible to educate everyone that goes into the BWCA but after much reflection of the issue, I think education is the only answer. Enforcement and punishment are post-indecent responses. Too bad we can't stop it before it happens.
Tom"


Agree, Tom. Education is absolutely the answer. Thanks!
 
PolyphemusPariah
member (6)member
 
08/24/2020 08:03AM
Also what not to do.... click for vid
 
08/24/2020 08:25AM
acanoer: "PolyphemusPariah: " We just got from Perent Lake, and I'm fairly certain we stayed at the camp shown in the vid (see map photo). On the Southwest side of the island, there was a recently marred Birch with the inscription 'HDHT3'...I think this is what was in the vid (photos below). I also included a pic of the camp (as well as some bonus shots of my wife with a pike and the rainbow over camp). Great trip and timed it well. Got this site right away upon entering on Tues...when leaving Friday the parking lot at Hog Creek was overflowing....not sure where those campers ended up sleeping once out at Perent.
"


.
I thought using beaver wood as a fire wood is a violation"


Welcome to the board in any event! Glad you and your family had a good trip -- nice photos.
 
PolyphemusPariah
member (6)member
 
08/24/2020 08:37AM
HighnDry: "acanoer: "PolyphemusPariah: " We just got \

Welcome to the board in any event! Glad you and your family had a good trip -- nice photos."

thanks!
 
scotttimm
distinguished member (385)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/24/2020 08:53AM
PolyphemusPariah: " We just got from Perent Lake, and I'm fairly certain we stayed at the camp shown in the vid (see map photo). On the Southwest side of the island, there was a recently marred Birch with the inscription 'HDHT3'...I think this is what was in the vid (photos below). I also included a pic of the camp (as well as some bonus shots of my wife with a pike and the rainbow over camp). Great trip and timed it well. Got this site right away upon entering on Tues...when leaving Friday the parking lot at Hog Creek was overflowing....not sure where those campers ended up sleeping once out at Perent.
"

I saw your post on FB (I think), and wondered if you indeed were at that site. If that was your post - it was kind of you to offer up space for other campers when the lake filled up. Keep on keepin on!
 
OldTripper
distinguished member (136)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/24/2020 09:49PM
tumblehome: "Beaver wood is not a violation.Tom"
I guess it depends on where you collect it from.
We were told by a ranger at the Ely ranger station that it was illegal to collect firewood off of a beaver lodge or to collect firewood from the shoreline.
He said you had to be XX feet into the woods from the shoreline. I can't remember exactly how far he said but it should not be visible from the shoreline.
One sentence from the BWCAW Rules and Regulations:
"When making a fire only use dead wood found lying on the
ground; collect it away from campsites, portages, and shorelines
to prevent enlarging and defacing these areas."
Web page
Just trying to keep folks from getting into trouble.
 
afromaniac
member (14)member
 
09/02/2020 09:58PM
4keys: "So here is an idea, although unrealistic, expensive, and it would probably be vandalized .: Install scanners at every entry point where you would scan your permit or enter the permit number before you get on the water. While it would not stop some without a permit, it might enlighten some who had no clue. And the FS could get data on how many with permits are actually using them, maybe even number of people or canoes too. And if you scan when you leave the FS could get data on length of stay, and know who is still out there in case of a fire etc. Outfitters could have some modification of this on their computer.


Ok, yes I have a little too much time on my hands, and my mind is wandering.
"

As an IT guy for a local government agency out of WI I would say this could be hard to come by from a hardware standpoint, and kinda hard to maintain too. Budget money might be better spent with the quiz idea mentioned earlier or other website/payment modifications.
 
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