BWCA When, exactly, were the good ol' days? Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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TuscaroraBorealis
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02/05/2023 03:48PM  
This comes up fairly often so I thought I'd pose the question... No right or wrong answer here; just wondering when do you consider the glory days (best times) of the bwca? Does it correspond to your earliest experiences there or something else? My opinion is that the past generation (25 years) or so, we may just have been experiencing them & are continuing to do so:

- Going back at least 300-400 years there have been people actually living there full time up until the late 1980's. This includes Indian tribes, Voyageurs, logging camps, resorts as well as individual people/families etc. With all due respect for those who were displaced, I, by far, prefer what we have today.

- Also, until the 1970's motors were allowed. At various times there were railroads, planes, boat motors etc. While I may be put off by occasional noisy campers or, someone fishing too close to my camp...that pales in comparison to having a logging train roaring through the woods, a plane land on the lake I'm camping on or, a motor boat whizzing close by. Once again I prefer what we have today.

- It's one thing to see a forest burnt to ashes by nature but, seeing a denuded landscape full of sawn off stumps would be quite another.

- Trash was just thrown in the woods or lake; and there are other things that I suppose could be mentioned but, in trying to minimize the length of this post.... :)
 
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02/05/2023 04:39PM  
Good question. For me I guess the good ol days were the days of my youth — say 14-24ish. That was the 60s and 70s for me. I don't have any argument with anyone saying that these are the good ol days. That's what Carly Simon sang in the 70s! For me it had little to do with the rest of the world, it was just my time of life.

I love these days too but if I could go back for a week or two I would choose the early 70s. In those days I was canoeing in Canada, I drove right past the BWCA. I enjoyed finding trappers cabins, the trains, and the occasional old car out in the woods. I liked wooden fishing boats with old outboards too.
 
02/05/2023 08:58PM  
For me the early 80’s. Ely was still a cozy place with the eclectic radio station. The fact that there were no real electronic location devices or cell phones made going on a trip more exciting. If we messed up we were pretty much on our own. A heightened sense of adventure back then.
 
Stumpy
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02/05/2023 11:43PM  
Traveler: "Good question. For me I guess the good ol days were the days of my youth — say 14-24ish. That was the 60s and 70s for me. I don't have any argument with anyone saying that these are the good ol days. That's what Carly Simon sang in the 70s! For me it had little to do with the rest of the world, it was just my time of life.


I love these days too but if I could go back for a week or two I would choose the early 70s. In those days I was canoeing in Canada, I drove right past the BWCA. I enjoyed finding trappers cabins, the trains, and the occasional old car out in the woods. I liked wooden fishing boats with old outboards too. "


YES
 
KarlBAndersen1
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02/06/2023 06:55AM  
You're bothered by someone fishing too close to your camp?
Uummm.........no comment.
 
Maiingan
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02/06/2023 06:58AM  
KarlBAndersen1: "You're bothered by someone fishing too close to your camp?
Uummm.........no comment."
+1
 
02/06/2023 07:30AM  
Maiingan: "
KarlBAndersen1: "You're bothered by someone fishing too close to your camp?
Uummm.........no comment."
+1"


Sounds bad but there is probably some preface. I’d probably see if they were catching anything for future reference or strike up a conversation.

I have a buddy who is on this website infrequently who went in with kids…a large group hustled past them to get to a lake, had their pick of camps chose one on the other side of the lake…then for the next 2 days almost all day fished 10’ off of his camp, about 15-20 feet from his fire pit…would wake them up unintentionally in the AM…they barely caught anything…after the second day he got annoyed…hauled the kids into their canoe and then fished 10’ off their campsite during their dinner time…in true passive aggressive Minnesota style :)

Apparently the group didn’t like that? Told him it was rude and he was too close…he hauled in 3 walleyes in a couple of minutes…told them to STFU…and reminded them they had been doing the same thing for 2 days and he was just there 15 minutes…how does it feel? If you like that spot so much why didn’t you just camp there.

He did talk to the group before all of this as they fished off his camp, it was friendly at first, then later he asked if maybe they could try to give the family some privacy at breakfast and dinner. Which didn’t happen.

Anyway…before judging someone maybe there is a story? But I hear ya…I camped at Rebecca Falls once. People fished, visited all day…you have to expect that. If I got mad it would be on me, not them.

T
 
TuscaroraBorealis
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02/06/2023 07:47AM  
KarlBAndersen1: "You're bothered by someone fishing too close to your camp?
Uummm.........no comment."


Actually, guess it always hasnt been fishing but, have had people walk right into what i consider (stones throw of) our camp/portage area on multiple occasions. Guess I'm weird that way?? :)

FWIW I apologize for having offended you to the extent that you decline to comment on the stated question.
 
02/06/2023 07:49AM  
For me 2000-2010. I was doing 3 trips/year. PMA’s, Quetico…the whole place was new to me couldn’t get enough. Each trip lead to questions on where or what I had to see next.

It’s just as good now…but like all good ole days it’s more about me during the time period than the actual time period.

T
 
MidwestMan
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02/06/2023 09:11AM  
I’m living them!
 
02/06/2023 09:33AM  
KarlBAndersen1: "You're bothered by someone fishing too close to your camp?
Uummm.........no comment."


And yet, you found yourself compelled to comment. As annoying as someone ending a statement with "just sayin".
 
TuscaroraBorealis
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02/06/2023 09:46AM  
timatkn: "
It’s just as good now…but like all good ole days it’s more about me during the time period than the actual time period.


T"


Well said.
 
GunflintTrailAngler
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02/06/2023 10:47AM  
Throughout the 80’s and up to 1994.
 
02/06/2023 10:54AM  
As long as I'am still tripping; the good ole' days never end.
 
jillpine
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02/06/2023 12:58PM  
Interesting question and one that gets discussed when traveling with the group, or in my head if solo.
From an accessibility view, the good ol’ days are right now. My gear is light, I’m in good health, and I have work and family life that allows me year-round time away to get into places where there are few others, preferably by canoe. Undeniably, both gear and access are better now for women who travel alone or without male travel partners.
From the view of the onset of the Anthropocene, I miss the birds, salamanders, and insects that I saw in my youth and see no more, or nowhere near as many. It wears on my psyche.
 
missmolly
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02/06/2023 01:21PM  
"I love these days too but if I could go back for a week or two I would choose the early 70s. In those days I was canoeing in Canada, I drove right past the BWCA. I enjoyed finding trappers cabins, the trains, and the occasional old car out in the woods. I liked wooden fishing boats with old outboards too."

^This^ for sure. We saw so many moose in my youth. We crossed wooden bridges, large and small. We also loved the abandoned trappers' cabins and the wooden boats down to their ribs.

TB, I feel badly that two guys gave you grief for this: "While I may be put off by occasional noisy campers or, someone fishing too close to my camp...."

Fishing in front of someone's campsite is bad form. Heck, if someone sets up a camp on a Crown Land lake, I leave that lake and never return.

 
02/06/2023 01:24PM  
For me the good old days coincides with what I'd call my age of discovery. When I didn't do it all correctly, where mistakes heightened the adventure. There were a couple of phases of that related to first trips of various kinds, and then reignited with doing solo trips.

While I still enjoy tripping, I'm able to rekindle the good old days now by introducing the area to my children, nieces, nephews, friends and extended family.
 
02/06/2023 01:25PM  
Maiingan: "
KarlBAndersen1: "You're bothered by someone fishing too close to your camp?
Uummm.........no comment."
+1"


Fishing right in front of someone else’s campsite might not be against the rules but it can show a lack of common courtesy and awareness. Especially in the quiet morning hours and especially if all three in your boat can’t stop blathering on while I sit and drink my coffee with my wife just twenty yards away. It was rude.

Good ol’ days means when young people were more aware and more respectful of what was outside their personal bubble. Kids these days! ;)
 
TreeBear
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02/06/2023 01:26PM  
This question's tough for me to answer since I am nowhere near old enough to have to the perspective to say "it was better when..."

That said, I can dream. For instance, my first BWCA trip was about 2003-04 which means I never saw the BWCA before the '99 blowdown. I vividly remember the massive logs cut on either side of the Daniels to Rove portage though and I wish I could have seen Rove and so many places before '99, and for some places 2016, ripped through.

Similarly, there are these other spots like Seagull or the Numbers Chain/Hudson/Insula/Hope that I never saw before the big fires. My first time on Seagull was to walk around my friends' cabin that had burned down in Ham and my first time through the numbers was my first guide season. I never saw those areas before the fires. I wish I had.

And of course, who wouldn't take a chance to have seen at least glimpses of pre-settlement ANYTHING in this state.

Also, I just wish I could have seen a woodland caribou in the BW!

I also am envious of people who met Dorothy, Benny, Sig, Miron, Justine, Joe Seliga, Ernest Oberholtzer, and so many others. I hear the stories, I know the lakes, but I wasn't alive when they passed into history. My great uncle who grew up in Babbit met Dorothy while he was growing up. He's not an outdoorsy person and the encounter doesn't mean that much to him which drives me crazy because meeting Dorothy would have meant so much to me!

On the other side, I'm so glad I wasn't around for the creation of the BWCA. I know where I would have likely stood, but everything I ever hear makes it sound so ugly! I live in Ely now and I see the resounding echoes from that time. I just read an excerpt about Sig testifying for a hearing in Ely leading up to the '78 BWCA act. There was just so much hate and anger, and I won't pretend it was just one sided, but it's incredible that a place so many of us associate with peace, tranquility, and quiet was/is a source of such anger and bitterness. I do not envy the folks that lived through the turmoil up here.
 
SaganagaJoe
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02/06/2023 04:36PM  
These are the good old days...to quote a song that is around basically every campfire we ever have, including those in the BWCA, and is basically my grandpa's favorite song:

Today while the blossoms still cling to the vine
I'll taste your strawberries
I'll drink your sweet wine
A million tomorrows may all pass away
E'er I forget the joys that are mine
Today

I'll be a dandy and I'll be a rover
You'll know who I am by the songs that I sing
I'll feast at your table, I'll lie in your clover
Who cares what tomorrow will bring?

I can't be contented with yesterday's glories
I can't live on promises winter to spring
Today is my moment and now is my story
So I'll laugh and I'll cry and I'll sing

Ottertrack and Ester July 2023 Here We Come (Lord willing)!
 
02/06/2023 05:29PM  
I was just going to say today is the best time, we have to live in the here and now and enjoy what we have, the past is past and tomorrow is never promised. Then I read your song SagJoe and it brought a smile to my face, that is awesome! Just perfect, thank you for that. I’m going to write that down and keep it so I can look at it from time to time. I might even share it with my on/off gf to give her some perspective on life, can’t hurt Haha
 
TuscaroraBorealis
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02/06/2023 07:09PM  
SaganagaJoe: "These are the good old days...to quote a song that is around basically every campfire we ever have, including those in the BWCA, and is basically my grandpa's favorite song:

Today while the blossoms still cling to the vine
I'll taste your strawberries
I'll drink your sweet wine
A million tomorrows may all pass away
E'er I forget the joys that are mine
Today

I'll be a dandy and I'll be a rover
You'll know who I am by the songs that I sing
I'll feast at your table, I'll lie in your clover
Who cares what tomorrow will bring?

I can't be contented with yesterday's glories
I can't live on promises winter to spring
Today is my moment and now is my story
So I'll laugh and I'll cry and I'll sing

Ottertrack and Ester July 2023 Here We Come (Lord willing)!"


Amen!
 
02/07/2023 06:44AM  
According to ChatGPT...
The "good old days" in the Boundary Waters are generally considered to be the 1950s and 1960s, when the area was still largely undeveloped and the use of motorized boats and engines was not as commonplace. During this time, the Boundary Waters was a vast wilderness, with limited access and very few people. The wilderness and solitude of the area was widely appreciated by outdoor enthusiasts, who sought out the Boundary Waters for its unique and pristine beauty.
 
02/07/2023 06:57AM  
I could be wrong but in the bdub, I would have liked to have gone to their the first 10 years after it was made a wilderness. I think it wasn’t as well know and would have been less crowded.
In it was pre BT corn and farming was more then growing corn and beans. We actually would have to clean bugs off the windshield so we could see. But on the down side we had no eagles, otters, bobcats, turkeys etc.
 
Sparkeh
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02/07/2023 07:06AM  
Any time before 9-11-2001.
 
KarlK
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02/07/2023 12:52PM  
I agree with the folks saying that we need to be present. Any day you can enjoy a scenic natural area is a good day. We too often see past the negative aspects of the "old days." I see nostalgia sometimes standing in the way of progress and clouding our judgement in this country, with very selective and deceptive use of history in public discussions. That said, I am glad to remember paddling and fishing before the age of mobile devices. The good old days may be the days we spent before the negative psychological effects of internet-connected phones.
 
Argo
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02/07/2023 01:04PM  
Maybe the days of single portaging and really being able to put some serious distance behind on the first day of travel.

Miss Molly, what did you mean by this?

"Heck, if someone sets up a camp on a Crown Land lake, I leave that lake and never return."

I don't get it. What's wrong with camping on Crown land?
 
missmolly
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02/07/2023 03:17PM  
Argo: "Maybe the days of single portaging and really being able to put some serious distance behind on the first day of travel.


Miss Molly, what did you mean by this?


"Heck, if someone sets up a camp on a Crown Land lake, I leave that lake and never return."


I don't get it. What's wrong with camping on Crown land?"


I'm just a greedy pig. I want a lake to myself.
 
02/07/2023 03:30PM  
bobbernumber3: "According to ChatGPT...
The "good old days" in the Boundary Waters are generally considered to be the 1950s and 1960s, when the area was still largely undeveloped and the use of motorized boats and engines was not as commonplace. During this time, the Boundary Waters was a vast wilderness, with limited access and very few people. The wilderness and solitude of the area was widely appreciated by outdoor enthusiasts, who sought out the Boundary Waters for its unique and pristine beauty."


Really? Did I just fall for a joke?

Almost every Lake was motorized during that time…Basswood had 20 resorts on it all by itself during that time…not to mention all of the private cabins. Crooked Lake had 2 successful long term lodges with more on and off during that time…one right at Curtain Falls. You could take a car/Jeep over the portage trail.

Fraser Lake had a private cabin on it into the ‘80’s, someone erected a statue on Brule…those are just a few examples but this wasn’t isolated.

There was logging and subsequent roads in the BWCA all the way into the ‘70s.

People just put their garbage way back into the woods. Each camp had its own dump…you can still find many of them. Then when that got bad you were told to just sink it in the lake. People washed their dishes in the lake…bathed in the lake directly with soap, there was garbage at the entry points. Lakes had docks, portages had signs, there were canoe rests on the portages, making tables/furniture was encouraged…I could go on…

It certainly was NOT a vast Wilderness…it wasn’t designated a wilderness until the mid 1960’s and not enforced as a wilderness until 1978.

Doesn’t sound pristine at all…it is way cleaner, less motors, gas leaking into lakes, less soap/food, less feces/urine etc… now a days than those supposed good ole days. Old people tend to look at history through rose colored glasses.

T
 
RunningFox
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02/07/2023 06:47PM  
When there were 200 million American citizens, not 330 million.
 
Dreamer
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02/08/2023 06:23AM  
I don't know about good ole days, but there were historical things that I would have liked to have seen.

One example - I'm thankful for is the log rivers that interconnect many of the lakes, sometimes real distances, cut by Caterpillar tractors. I would have liked to see those being made.

I would like to have seen the native people living in the area - to be present when they painted the pictographs. Wouldn't that be cool?

Every trip I take into new territory - I've seen maybe 25% of what I want to see if the BW - brings me right back to why I come here. Adventure. Family. Connecting with the Creator. Awe. It's still the same as when I first came in 1991.

 
NotLight
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02/08/2023 08:08AM  
I remember in the election cycle of 1999, and all the politicians were talking about the skyrocketing cost of health care. This one politician said, if you're worried about it now at 8% of GDP, wait until its 16%. What I realize now is that wasn't a prediction or a forecast, it was a plan.

So now I frequently hear about the US population reaching 660 million, or even a billion people. And it sure seems like more of a plan than a prediction. BWCA is going to be a lot more exclusive, and a lot more crowded. That population pressure, and simple economics, will make private alternatives for outdoor recreation unaffordable to most. This will put even more pressure on public lands, including more destructive non-authorized uses.

Save the old photos. We lived in good times.
 
Banksiana
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02/08/2023 08:11AM  
Dreamer: "
One example - I'm thankful for is the log rivers that interconnect many of the lakes, sometimes real distances, cut by Caterpillar tractors. I would have liked to see those being made.
"


Where are these "log rivers" you speak of?
 
Maiingan
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02/08/2023 09:12AM  
Banksiana: "
Dreamer: "
One example - I'm thankful for is the log rivers that interconnect many of the lakes, sometimes real distances, cut by Caterpillar tractors. I would have liked to see those being made.
"



Where are these "log rivers" you speak of?"


I would think Dreamer is talking about what we now call the bwca. I bet I can name the location of more than a half dozen dams built by the loggers to float their booty in the now called B-Dub.
 
Gadfly
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02/08/2023 10:13AM  
NotLight: "I remember in the election cycle of 1999, and all the politicians were talking about the skyrocketing cost of health care. This one politician said, if you're worried about it now at 8% of GDP, wait until its 16%. What I realize now is that wasn't a prediction or a forecast, it was a plan.

So now I frequently hear about the US population reaching 660 million, or even a billion people. And it sure seems like more of a plan than a prediction. BWCA is going to be a lot more exclusive, and a lot more crowded. That population pressure, and simple economics, will make private alternatives for outdoor recreation unaffordable to most. This will put even more pressure on public lands, including more destructive non-authorized uses.

Save the old photos. We lived in good times.
"


I couldn't possibly agree with this more. Our government relies on an increase in population. We are part of a giant Ponzi scheme that will completely collapse if our population does not continue to increase. I would say at the very least the good ol' days are starting to fade.

 
missmolly
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02/08/2023 11:08AM  
Gadfly: "
NotLight: "I remember in the election cycle of 1999, and all the politicians were talking about the skyrocketing cost of health care. This one politician said, if you're worried about it now at 8% of GDP, wait until its 16%. What I realize now is that wasn't a prediction or a forecast, it was a plan.


So now I frequently hear about the US population reaching 660 million, or even a billion people. And it sure seems like more of a plan than a prediction. BWCA is going to be a lot more exclusive, and a lot more crowded. That population pressure, and simple economics, will make private alternatives for outdoor recreation unaffordable to most. This will put even more pressure on public lands, including more destructive non-authorized uses.


Save the old photos. We lived in good times.
"



I couldn't possibly agree with this more. Our government relies on an increase in population. We are part of a giant Ponzi scheme that will completely collapse if our population does not continue to increase. I would say at the very least the good ol' days are starting to fade.


"


Agreed.
 
Maiingan
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02/08/2023 11:15AM  
+1
 
brulu
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02/08/2023 12:35PM  
Gadfly: "
NotLight: "I remember in the election cycle of 1999, and all the politicians were talking about the skyrocketing cost of health care. This one politician said, if you're worried about it now at 8% of GDP, wait until its 16%. What I realize now is that wasn't a prediction or a forecast, it was a plan.


So now I frequently hear about the US population reaching 660 million, or even a billion people. And it sure seems like more of a plan than a prediction. BWCA is going to be a lot more exclusive, and a lot more crowded. That population pressure, and simple economics, will make private alternatives for outdoor recreation unaffordable to most. This will put even more pressure on public lands, including more destructive non-authorized uses.


Save the old photos. We lived in good times.
"



I couldn't possibly agree with this more. Our government relies on an increase in population. We are part of a giant Ponzi scheme that will completely collapse if our population does not continue to increase. I would say at the very least the good ol' days are starting to fade.


"


If there's a Ponzi scheme, it's our mostly capitalist economy as a whole (that we are all participants in).

I don't think it would be correct to single out the government for blame (or politicians, or demographers).

I think it's more of a prediction than a plan.

Just my take, no offense intended to anyone or their opinion.

And I would agree that these are the good old days right now, for the most part.
 
Speckled
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02/08/2023 01:15PM  
For me - about 10 yrs ago, plus or minus a few years each way. At that point I was in great shape, had good gear and the BW wasn't nearly as busy as it is today.

Pre that time I had heavy and old gear. Post that time, i've gotten out of shape and the BW has gotten alot busier.

Along these same lines - Who's seen the movie "Midnight in Paris" It's a fascenating look at perespective of the "Good ol days"...and it has Marion Cotillard in it.

 
02/08/2023 01:50PM  
Wow the conspiracy theories are starting to fly…gotta put my boots on…get back to the BWCAW.

I’ll go back to my initial comment that good ole days are more determined by the eyes of the beholder and their perception of their memories than any actual facts…That’s okay, it’s fun to do. We often remember things better than they really were it’s called “Rosy Retrospection”…most people tend to forget the negative parts of a trip/experience and remember only the good.

We also tend to at a certain again begin what is called “declinism”…Rosy Retrospection often leads to declinism—negative feelings about the future or current state…utilizating confirmation bias as proof.

Since the beginning of time this has been going on…In the moment and the future we are in fight or flight, our brain looks at everything as an obstacle or problem to solve changes our outlook. But looking back in the past we can ignore the negative and only see the positive.

A small percentage of people are the opposite, younger people tend to be more rosy prospection which is anticipating that future events will be better than they will be.

We all are a mixture and can change as life changes, but as we age we become more nostalgic, Rosy Retrospective and definitely more declinism.

Population increase and health care comments declinism …I prefer more of the Rosy prospection. Many population models predict very slow growth and the current generation negative growth (could be looked as bad as well). Health Care since 1999 has improved significantly 20 years of cancer Advancement , knee and hip replacements can be same day surgeries, Achilles tear ended most athletic careers—now Mo Ibrahim won the big ten rushing title less than a year after a tear, HIV advances, there was a 30% drop in cancer death rates…many more…all the while when Americans tripled their obesity rates and still managed to live longer. Quite amazing.

T
 
02/08/2023 08:09PM  
bobbernumber3: "According to ChatGPT...
The "good old days" in the Boundary Waters are generally considered to be the 1950s and 1960s, when the area was still largely undeveloped and the use of motorized boats and engines was not as commonplace. During this time, the Boundary Waters was a vast wilderness, with limited access and very few people. The wilderness and solitude of the area was widely appreciated by outdoor enthusiasts, who sought out the Boundary Waters for its unique and pristine beauty."


The problem with that time period is there were cabins, resorts, motors, cans, bottles, trash piles, planes..... I doubt it was the wilderness it is now. (or at least tries to be)

If you bring a mask and snorkel into a clear water lake, just do some diving around the campsites. The cool glass jars and bottles down there will amaze you.

**Sorry TimAtkin. I just read your post now on the same subject. I think we both agree.
 
missmolly
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02/08/2023 09:03PM  


Tim, what you wrote sounds right, but I recently had a conversation with an ex-Kodiak bear guide and he said that when clients returned for another hunt, the evening before the hunt began, when they were in comfortable rooms, it wasn't killing a big bear that they reveled in, but rather the misery of spending days in wet woods on their prior hunt, tracking that bear. He said that the colder and wetter they were, the more excited they were. I think it was a rite of passage for them.

On a personal level, T, I think I'm suffering from declinism. I wonder if I can reverse the current.
 
02/08/2023 09:16PM  
Good topic, TB. Lots to consider in the conversation.

The good 'old days for me were when my Dad could trip with me. We took our last wilderness trip together last spring. He has since retired from the rigor of the adventurous excursions but we will still go camping for a week this summer just staying at campgrounds. 48 years of camping together more years than not...

Presently I feel blessed to still go with my daughters several times every year to the wilderness - two BWCA trips this summer with some of my daughters and I am very excited!

The best is yet to come, I hope and believe, as someday I'll be a grandpa and hope to canoe camp with my grandkids. Brings a smile to my face thinking about planning those adventures.

I guess my answer to the original question has a lot more to do with my approach, station in life, and perspective than what may or may not be happening in the world. The glory days are the ones I'm in the BWCA with the people I love.
 
missmolly
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02/09/2023 11:18AM  
YetiJedi: "Good topic, TB. Lots to consider in the conversation.


The good 'old days for me were when my Dad could trip with me. We took our last wilderness trip together last spring. He has since retired from the rigor of the adventurous excursions but we will still go camping for a week this summer just staying at campgrounds. 48 years of camping together more years than not...


Presently I feel blessed to still go with my daughters several times every year to the wilderness - two BWCA trips this summer with some of my daughters and I am very excited!


The best is yet to come, I hope and believe, as someday I'll be a grandpa and hope to canoe camp with my grandkids. Brings a smile to my face thinking about planning those adventures.


I guess my answer to the original question has a lot more to do with my approach, station in life, and perspective than what may or may not be happening in the world. The glory days are the ones I'm in the BWCA with the people I love."


You hit it out of the ballpark ^here.^ Heck, you sent it over the parking lot and hit the sign of "Ernie's Tavern" across the street, punching a hole in that sign, which will be a point of pride for Ernie until his final breath.

P. S. - Of course, you may drink free at Ernie's until your final breath.
 
Argo
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02/09/2023 11:49AM  

Yeah, I had brought a mask and snorkel on one trip. Never again. And for that very reason.
 
02/09/2023 12:02PM  
missmolly: "

On a personal level, T, I think I'm suffering from declinism. I wonder if I can reverse the current.
"

I don’t know that we can change it much. Awareness helps to take a step back.

I fear for the current generation, they are supposed to be in the Rosyprospection phase in general and they are constantly bombarded by how bad everything is and how the world is worsening. I can’t help but feel for them. I grew up in a time period where murders, gun violence, child abductions, serial killers, traffic deaths…were all significantly higher per capita than now, also during a time period of active war killed 60,000 Americans and during a time where fear of nuclear annihilation seemed eminent at times. For the most part my generation still had rosyprospection growing up.

This current generation has such high levels of anxiety and depression…we’ve done them such a disservice with the negativity of how things are now when there is so much positive change going on as well. I don’t know…what do I know…just trying to raise my kids to have a positive outlook on life is tough right now.

T
 
02/09/2023 02:38PM  
Great topic,

I have been following along as each reply has some meaning in it, to the writer, and most of them I totally agree with. However, I want to throw my thoughts to the wind, so please allow a newly retired, older canoeist and lover of the wilderness we call "B-Dub".

The G.O.D.'s (Good Old Days) at one point in my life was 1972, the first year our Dad took my brother and I in. Grandpa had always wanted to go, something always got in the way and my Father, (who just passed Jan 17th) was not about to let that happen for his sons. What made this trip the G.O.D.'s? The smile on Dads face each time my brother or I caught a bigger fish than the other. The 24/7 time he spent showing us what needed to be done. The passion he had for keeping the B-Dub spoil free. It was new to us, NEVER been there or anywhere like it before. I was a 14 year old pretending I was a Voyageur while carrying the 78 pound Grumman canoe. We drank water straight from the lake!!!

At another point it was in 2012 when I took my two boys into Quetico, through the BWCAW. No longer new to me, (this would be my 7th trip) but it was a different G.O.D.'s as they were the ages of my brother and I on our first trip. I was seeing it all through a Father's eye, smiling as one got the fire going with one match, the camaraderie between us, the card games we played at night. I imagine we have all been there, in our own way, in our tent or hammock on our own special lake.

Several more trips have been made with each one being, "will this be the last?" Each time we have gone I find another set of reasons that TODAY is the G.O.D.'s best trip. 2020 found us in the middle of the busiest time I have ever seen the B-Dub, YET we found ourselves pretty much alone on Lynx Lake. So many memories from each trip but this was the first after my treatment for cancer the year before. I felt alive, strong again, excited, and in wonderment again like I was in 1972.

Have the lakes and land changed, yes. For the better? Probably not but it is still there for us. It is what I "visit" in my minds eye when I am sad, or worried, or stressed out. The next trip is being planned with my sons and will be the first of a new generation will go with us, the 4th generation to experience what I HOPE will be his "Good Old Days".
 
02/09/2023 06:17PM  
missmolly: "
YetiJedi: "

You hit it out of the ballpark ^here.^ Heck, you sent it over the parking lot and hit the sign of "Ernie's Tavern" across the street, punching a hole in that sign, which will be a point of pride for Ernie until his final breath.


P. S. - Of course, you may drink free at Ernie's until your final breath. "


Very kind of you, Miss Molly. :)
 
missmolly
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02/09/2023 07:35PM  
I've always admired your lucidity, T. I also admire your parenting.

;-), YetiJedi.

Love your post, Mo!
 
TuscaroraBorealis
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02/09/2023 08:29PM  
YetiJedi: "Good topic, TB. Lots to consider in the conversation.
"


Certainly this thread has gone in a few completely unanticipated directions but, I think Timatkin revealed some often obscured truth quite eloquently when he stated, "most people tend to forget the negative parts of a trip/experience and remember only the good." This was why I asked if a person's opinion of the G.O.D's (btw I like that acronym Mo63021) corresponded to their earliest memories.

And, if I'm being honest, I guess if there was an objective to the original question??? It was, perhaps, an attempt for us all to realize how grateful we should be for what we have had, and do have in the bwca - and life.

...even if, occasionally, there are those out there who practically fish right on top of us. ;-)



 
02/10/2023 09:29AM  
missmolly: "I've always admired your lucidity, T. I also admire your parenting.


;-), YetiJedi.


Love your post, Mo!"


Thank you Miss Molly
 
Gadfly
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02/14/2023 08:49AM  
timatkn: "

Population increase and health care comments declinism …I prefer more of the Rosy prospection. Many population models predict very slow growth and the current generation negative growth (could be looked as bad as well). Health Care since 1999 has improved significantly 20 years of cancer Advancement , knee and hip replacements can be same day surgeries, Achilles tear ended most athletic careers—now Mo Ibrahim won the big ten rushing title less than a year after a tear, HIV advances, there was a 30% drop in cancer death rates…many more…all the while when Americans tripled their obesity rates and still managed to live longer. Quite amazing.


T"


My comments were not necessarily to say our society is in decline but to point out that our society and government are incredibly reliant on growth at least when it comes to economics. Just one simple example is needing more young healthy people to be paying for insurance to cover for all of the bills racked up by older individuals. Keeping obese people alive longer does not happen cheaply. Keep in mind we spend nearly double on health care per person compared to the next highest county. This US healthcare system is set up to fix problems and not prevent them in the first place. There is more money in fixing problems than preventing them.
My overall intent was to point out that an increasing population will continue to impact our wilderness areas and will make it more difficult/expensive for people to enjoy them.
 
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